Snyder vetoes gun bill

(UPDATED: TUESDAY, 5:41 p.m.) Gov. Rick Snyder vetoed legislation on Tuesday that would have allowed concealed weapons in churches, schools and day care centers.
AP Wire
Dec 18, 2012

The Republican governor said in a press release that he seeks a more "thoughtful review" related to gun violence that includes school emergency policies and mental health-related issues.

"While we must vigilantly protect the rights of law-abiding firearm owners, we also must ensure the right of designated public entities to exercise their best discretion in manners of safety and security," he said. "These public venues need clear legal authority to ban firearms on their premises if they see fit do so."

Snyder told The Associated Press Monday that his concerns about the bill were heightened after Friday's massacre that left 26 people — including 20 children — dead at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn. He also drew on memories of a fatal shooting in his college dormitory more than three decades ago.

Snyder said the Good Friday 1981 shooting at University of Michigan also played into his decision-making regarding the legislation. He was a law school student and resident adviser when a student set fires by throwing Molotov cocktails onto the floor and fired a shotgun, killing another resident adviser and a student who was trying to help get people off the floor.

He said he dealt with the fire alarm while two other student advisers went up to the floor where the gunman was. If it wasn't for an ailing resident director, Snyder said, he would have responded and "that most likely would have been me" who was shot.

The reflection shaped by the incident that he said still replays in his mind sharply contrasts with the whirlwind decisions made last week by the governor, who in the final days of the legislative session led a Republican effort to make the historically union-strong state the nation's 24th to enact right-to-work legislation limiting labor's power. It was one of an estimated 282 bills passed in the so-called lame-duck session that was capped by marathon 18-hour session over 2 days.

The gun legislation he vetoed would have prohibited openly carrying guns in those places while allowing permit holders to carry concealed weapons. But they couldn't do so if the locations declare themselves weapons-free zones under the state's trespassing laws.

Under existing law, people may openly carry guns in those and other locations, but it's illegal to carry concealed weapons in schools, churches and childcare centers.

Snyder has signed two other bills he said "streamline the process" for buying handguns and end restrictions on interstate rifle and shotgun transactions to states that do not border Michigan. Residents currently may buy those firearms in any contiguous state if they conform to state and federal regulations.

State Sen. Mike Green, a Republican from Mayville and a bill sponsor, said in a release that the veto means concerns from all sides of the issue won't be dealt with "in a reasonable, responsible way."

"I am deeply disappointed that the governor would prefer a confusing patchwork of gun laws around the state rather than the one clear standard for law-abiding citizens that was established in (the bill)," he said.

Zach Pohl, executive director of the liberal group Progress Michigan, said in a release that Snyder was "making the right call."

"This is a victory for school safety and common sense," he said. "Snyder deserves credit for finally standing up to the extreme forces in his own party."

What do you think? Cast your vote in the Tribune's online poll (found on the right side of the News page).

Comments

ghresident

Synder, your a moron,,,,,,Maybe if someone was carrying in that school, those innocent little children and teachers may possibly be still alive today.

Magic Mike

You know this for fact? If someone is armed to the tooth with high powered assault weapons, someone packing a self-defense pistol probably doesn't stand much of a chance.

deuce liti

The single-bullet kill shot hero theory for Jane Q. Teacher doesn't hold water. Also, I would never want my child in classroom with a person whose values greatly differ from mine holding a gun. Teachers can have some pretty bad days and they don't need a gun and clouded judgement.

Justsaying

Mr. Governor,

You must have an incredible difficult job. You are normally a level headed, thinker. Today you made a decision, not based upon logic or fact, but on political pressure. You bent your "mind" to the emotion of the political climate. Today you choose to disarm the legal and lawful carry citizen and identify to the killers in society where they can have at least 5-10 minutes of uninterrupted shooting on the innocent. You choose political reputation over the safety of the citizens you were elected to serve. Look to right and to your left, right now. You have armed body guards to protect you. You are asking me to disarm myself each time I enter a place you designated, not as a "gun-free-zone" but a "kill-zone."

lakeshore12

Snyder has no backbone. He is supposed to serve the citizens of Michigan... Instead he serves his political agenda

Captain Obvious

Hmmm...the e-mails and telephone calls were 7 to 1 in favor of having Snyder veto the bill. I would say he was serving the citizens of Michigan. If it is serving his agenda I would say he could see the writing on the wall that this was an un-popular bill with the citizens of Michigan. You contradict yourself.

christopher

Governor Snyder,

It sounds like you want to strengthen and support the idea of "gun free zones." This is one of the most ridiculous concepts I have ever heard of. As I think about the various mass shootings over my life time, it seems that most all of them have happened in these places where guns are not allowed.

Do people understand that guns were NOT allowed in Sandy Hook? This meant that only one person had a gun in that school. And that one person was unstoppable by anyone in the building. We have no way of knowing how many lives would have been saved if a well trained teacher, administrator or parent would have had a gun in this situation.

The reality is that it likely could not have been worse.

It is very sad that the children of Michigan as well as their parents will now have less protection than the could have. Criminals in the state of Michigan now know that these areas remain safe zones for criminals for guns because of no-chance law abiding citizens will have guns in these areas.

Marsipan

Gov. Snyder was right to veto this legislation. It is beyond fantasy to think that the solution to the gun problem in the U.S. is to get more guns in more hands in more places more freely. No one can seriously contend that first-grade teachers should carry guns into their classrooms. Or that school principals should receive firearms training. Or that gun-toting passerby good samaritans should be able to rush into a school where an incident is perceived to be happening and start shooting. With guns and words: think first. I'm glad Gov. Snyder did.

opinionscount

The answer will not be found in having clergy, teachers, and principals obtaining a gun license to carry. The answer is for people to go to our knees. We've lost our direction in our nation because we've lost our faith. "Faith is the substance of things to be hoped for, the evidence of the things unseen." These murderers are sad, miserable people who have no hope. Just like the guy who fired off 50 shots in the parking lot in CA...his explanation, "I'm so unhappy with life." As Lincoln and Reagan both claimed..."I have been driven many times upon my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go." As a nation, this is where we are. Through this horrible tragedy in Connecticut, this is where we are. Driven to our knees because we have nowhere else to go. "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will heal their land." Our nation can get back on track, but it will not come from stricter gun laws or new gun-carrying legislation. It will take divine intervention.

Justsaying

Do you lock your doors, or pray? Do you wear a seatbelt or pray? Do you go to the doctor/hospital, or pray? I am all for praying!!!!! But, David didn't go up against Goliath on a wing and prayer. He went up against Goliath with one in the chamber and four stones in the pocket. His prayer was, "God help my aim ... and, if I miss, I have four more rocks for this evil man." They he politely praised God for sending the rock to its target. Don't mistake my preparation for lack of prayer. I believe we are satisfying God with both. Although, I agree our country has lost their faith. But, faith without works is dead!

GH55

How much good did having all those guns do Ms. Lanza? They actually resulted in her death.
I don't care what the situation, if you have a terrorist, which is what this guy really was, ready to throw away their life, to senselessly kill people, there is very little you can do to defend against that.
He blasted his way in a locked door!
If you suspect someone is getting ready to do something, and you shoot first, and guessed wrong, what then, who is the murderer then!
We kill 40,000 a year on our roads. What do we do about that? How many have we killed in our pursuit of oil?
You want to have more people running around with concealed weapons?
Ludicrous!
Go live in Alaska or Somalia!

Communications Guru

I'm so happy he vetoed this misguided bill. Still, it doesn’t make up for pushing the anti-worker right to freeload bill.

ghresident

Misguided bill???? There's two more brand spankin' new AR's in my family since he signed this......lol!

dyankee

@justsaying, well said. Although Govt. Snyder has shown very good leadership and understanding as to what we need to get our State's economy growing and producing again, he has shown a great weakness at a time when his leadership was again, needed. Great leaders lead during the heat of the battle and make decisions based on their core principles and do not bow down to political correctness or the fear of how they would be percieved. No guns were allowed in the Sandy Hill elementary school and this slaughter still happened. Why? because the murderer had the weapons and the responsible citizens didn't. So, now we find ourselves trying to fix a problem using the same mentality that created it. However, when we do finally have legislation providing protection against these reprehensible mass school killings, the people's legislation is denied precisely because of a reprehensible mass school killing. God help us.

GH55

I hate to break this to you, but if some nut job, intent on doing harm to others with no regard for their on going wellfare, decides to blast his way in through a locked security door and start shooting innocent people with no thought for them at all, there is little you or God is going to do to stop them.
I would imagine a "responsible citizen", carrying a concealed weapon, may have the opportunity to "take a shooter out" but there is a big step between the thought and the actual implementation of that action. You shoot without absolute certainty that your target is "a shooter" and not a SWAT and then who is the murderer?
Get rid of the Bushmasters! Get rid of the pistols! There is no need!
I remember when I was in the military, unless you were actually out on patrol, walking a guard post or actively shooting on a range, you had no access to bullets. The bullets were inventoried carefully. I provided communications for a site that held nuclear weapons, my bullets were in a locked box in a safe. And I had standing orders to use deadly force if ANYONE attempted to climb the fence. Even then, we had at least 5 people in the three years I was in that unit, either shoot up equipment or themselves.
And you want average "responsible citizens" running around armed with semi-automatic pistols as a general way of life.
No way! Cowboy, you were born in the wrong century!

Wayne Justinen

So, your training was so poor that people were shooting up equipment and themselves. Pity.

You must be horrified that the police are also government trained. I have news for you, the police although not uniquely qualified to carry and use firearms are considerably better trained than you were. And, when they want better training they attend the same civilian shooting schools as do pastors, teachers, parents, and yes - mIlitary personnel.

cowdog

First, let’s address the last comment. That survey has been debunked over and over again. A pro gun group made 5000 phone survey and found .6% said they had used their guns in self defense. Than the extrapolated it out over the whole population of the US and came up that crazy number. The same method was used when they ask Americans if they had even met an alien and ten times more people said they had met and aliens than used the gun in self defense.
We have the most guns in the world by far. So using the NRA logic we should be the safest place in the world. We are not!!! We are the most dangerous place in the western world. In fact countries that have more guns have more deaths. Giving more guns to more people will just make thing worst. The NRA use to be a group that taught sportsman and hunters how to use their weapons safely. Now they are just the lobbying arm of the arms makers. Spending hundreds of millions of dollars so they can sell anything, anytime regardless how wrong it could be.
The idea that arming everybody is going to prevent murders has been proven over and over again not to work. Even the best training professional are not very effective in an unexpected high pressure situation. Not long ago in New York the police shot nine bystanders trying to stop one shooter. We should all remember the shooting of an unarmed student at Grand Valley by trained law enforcement. Studies were done that sent a shooter in a class room with armed college students. The students were shot before any of them could draw their weapons. Luckily this test was done with paint balls.
If you are one of those people that believe the second amendment allows for you to have weapons to over throw the government. Man up and realize there is one way to over throw the government. It is called voting. The man up part is remembering that this is government for the people by the people and if most the people want someone else you have to live with it until next time around.
Who protects my family’s right not to be in any location where someone does have a semiautomatic weapon. Is it more important for the NRA to make sure everyone carry a gun then to keep families safe?

dyankee

GH55, you are a product of liberal sensativity indoctrination. You are trained to be a victim and not a survivor. You have been brainwashed to support no losers in kid's sports. You can never fight back for fear you might be labled a bully. You are the first one at a vigil when the rest of us are the first ones to lock and load. You believe in protecting kids in schools like Sandy Hill by ignorantly suggesting the banning of guns, but you say nothing when unborn babies skull's are drilled into and killed through abortion proceedures. You buy curly light bulbs filled with mercury and think you're doing your part for the environment. You voted for Obama because you didn't want to be accused of being a racist, you would give up all your freedoms(and mine) for an ounce of security, and you put your faith in bigger government and not that of the people. Do I paint an accurate picture or do I exaggerate? Although we all are grateful for your service to our Country, it is so disappointing to see what you have learned from that experience. No one is asking to be allowed to "run-around" with guns and act like a "cowboy", but only the chance and the right to stop these sensless burials of innocent kids and adults everywhere that are being slaughter by individuals that YOU are doing nothing to stop. Weaponry has been apart of human interaction since the beginning of man and it will NEVER change. So, doesn't it make more sense to allow and regulate firearms for law abiding citizens verses banning them thereby, giving them to lunatics, criminals, and dictators?

dyankee

Cowdung, just because Americans have a majority of firearms does not mean that everyone has them. Therefore, not everyone can protect themselves because of shallow thinkers like yourself that are trying to ban them! Let me attempt to drill through the wood....look at the States with permit to carry laws versus States that do not. All States with CCW laws have less violent crimes than ones without them. DID YOU HEAR WHAT I JUST SAID? You are outright lying when you spew that countries with more guns have more deaths. They're are more deaths in other countries, but not because of guns. The Aurora lunatic that killed innocent victims in a movie theater had 13 theaters to choose from. He chose the ONLY theater that posted NO CONCEALED WEAPONS allowed. The NRA moves mountains to support, sponser & conduct safety training classes for young kids & adults, all the way up to contributing to our military. What a reckless uninformed thing to say about an organization that does everything in its power to preserve the 2nd Amendment and educate the citizenry on the safe use of firearms.

uniondude

Well said....

ghjhs

We all had two chanches to recall Snyder so no crying in your beer now is two late, you voted him in,..not me. And everyone knowes tricky Rickey is in favor with Devoss. We have enoughf gun control, the wessele politisions are just going to use this just like Snyder for their polictal advancement.
Now hear is a thought:put an trained securty person in every school and pay with it with a tax millage on your house, you want protection..pay for it put your money were your mouth is don't ask the politisions to do it for you.

dyankee

polelidicul wisurd. Hear is anutter ideah, www.webstersdictionary.com I

Wayne Justinen

I've said it elsewhere but it bears repeating:

Problem one - SURVIVE THE ATTACK

Solution of problem one:

A. When attacked, call someone with a gun to stop the attack, or

B. When attacked, use personally carried gun to stop the attack.

The answer is B.

Governor Rick Snyder failed the test.

No One Special

Very particular GHT! When you vote "Yes" on your current poll, it registers it as an "Are you kidding? No!" By design or a glitch?

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