Mich. lawmaker: Ban openly carried guns in schools

Michigan could no longer let people openly carry guns into schools under a proposal pushed Thursday by a lawmaker and the state's largest teachers' union, which argued a loophole must be closed three months after the massacre at a Connecticut elementary school.
AP Wire
Mar 17, 2013

"A gun-free zone is not truly gun-free," Rep. Andy Schor, D-Lansing, said during a Capitol news conference. "As a gun owner, I recognize the importance of the Second Amendment. But in this case, allowing openly armed civilians to roam the halls of our schools is a recipe for disaster."

Under existing state law, people with concealed weapons permits may openly carry guns in schools, hospitals, sports arenas and other gun-free zones. But it is illegal to carry concealed weapons in those places.

Republican Gov. Rick Snyder in December vetoed legislation — passed hours before the Sandy Hook Elementary School attack — that would have allowed concealed weapons in gun-free zones and prohibited openly carried weapons. He said he wanted schools to be able to ban guns completely from their premises if they saw fit.

Schor's bill was quietly introduced in January and has received no hearing. It also would add public libraries to the list of pistol-free zones.

"I can think of few things that would generate more panic in an elementary school full of kids than to have someone walking down the hall with a gun on their hip because they are hypersensitive to this sort of thing," said Steve Cook, president of the Michigan Education Association.

In response to a GOP-sponsored bill that would make an exception to the ban on concealed firearms in schools, House Speaker Jase Bolger, R-Marshall, said last month he did not think it was the right time for gun-related legislation so soon after the Newtown shooting.

Spokesman Ari Adler said Thursday that Bolger had not taken a position on the open-carry legislation.

"The bill will need to move through the committee process where it can be properly vetted to determine if it's the right policy to address the growing concerns over both school safety and the Second Amendment rights of Michigan's gun owners," Adler said.

A gun-rights advocate disputed the contention that there is a "loophole" in the law and opposed any effort to ban all guns in schools, calling the current areas where concealed weapons are off limits "criminal-empowerment zones."

"We support a person's right to defend themselves wherever they are," said Phillip Hofmeister, president of Michigan Open Carry.

He said his group last year made a concession to do away with openly carried guns in gun-free zones because most gun owners would prefer to conceal their weapons while walking in schools and other areas. But since Snyder vetoed the bill, Hofmeister said, the organization is unlikely to support such a trade-off again.

Supporters of Schor's bill say that under current law, law-abiding citizens could be mistaken as being dangerous if they legally openly carry a gun into a school.

To read House Bill 4104, CLICK HERE

Comments

Lanivan

I hope Congressman Schor's proposal comes up for review and is passed. What kind of society are we condoning and what are we saying to our children when we allow people to freely open carry firearms as they roam the halls and classrooms of our schools, kindergartens and preschools?

A constitutional right that is regulated is not a right denied.

Wingmaster

Your posting to many opinions so your free speech constitutional right should be regulated right;-)

Lanivan

There are many regulations regarding the 1st...."Government can prohibit entirely speech that threatens national security, that is obscenity,[8] that incitements to imminent lawlessness,[9] is a true threat,[10] and fighting words.[11] it can place reasonable restrictions on the time, place, and manner of speech, and can regulate speech that takes place in public; it can force one to compensate victims of defamation and other forms of speech injurious to private interests; and it can regulate speech that takes place over the airwaves. Moreover, when speech or the exercise of religion merges into action, government can regulate those forms of expression to protect the public health, safety, and welfare"......for starters.

Wingmaster

"Can" being the pivotal word here. No form of speech outright banned. Your on a slippery slope...careful.

Lanivan

So are you saying you think there should be no governmental regulations of any kind applied to the 2nd Amendment - or any others, for that matter? Think very carefully before you answer.....

Wingmaster

We have laws, we have penalty for breaking those laws, how about we focus on enforcing and stiffening the penalty for breaking those laws. Why do you want to infringe upon law abiding citizens rights. You should be the one thinking carefully as we see the drip, drip of our rights going away.

If there was open carry in Connecticut schools by officers or trained carry citizens, it would not be a poster event for Frankenstein in Calli and others to use to promote their second amendment attack because the mass killing would not have taken place.

Why do the warts in society pick the "gun free" type of location for mass killings? I'll answer: Guaranteed no guns to stop them.

Why don't we have mass killings at gun shows? There are guns and ammo by the thousands laying around! I'll answer: Guaranteed someone would put up substantial resistance to the crazy with a gun and take'm out!

According to this article gun shows should be a "major recipe for disaster" with all those guns around openly!

So Lan, to link to other post we have had, the lyrics "The way you run your life it makes no sense to me" -Molly Hatchet - Flirtin With Disaster comes to mind!

Lanivan

"Put 'em back where they belong, Ain't foolin' around 'cause I had my fun, Ain't gonna see no more damage done". Gimme Back My Bullets, Lynyrd Skynryd

Wingmaster

I'll be singing that verse when they come for my bullets next. Tax will be the tactic used for that attack and that will bring us to the Beatles Taxman.

Let me tell you how it will be

There's one for you, nineteen for me

Should 5% appear too small

Be thankful I don't take it all.

Lanivan

First it was worries about gov't ammo hoarding, then banning open carry in the schools is somehow an infringement of your 2nd rights, now the tax man (even tho your taxes are at their lowest in about 30 years). "Don't look for no worries, worries and trouble come around". The World Keep on Turning, Fleetwood Mac.

I keep telling you -

Lanivan

First it was worries about gov't ammo hoarding, then banning open carry in the schools is somehow an infringement of your 2nd rights, now the tax man (even tho your taxes are at their lowest in about 30 years). "Don't look for no worries, worries and trouble come around". The World Keep on Turning, Fleetwood Mac.

I keep telling you - instead of buying ammo/firearms, buy their stock....beat 'em at their own game! (btw, my business is not a stock brokerage)

michiglen

Concealed Carry means CONCEALED carry. Frickin small balled idiots just screw it for all.

whatajoke

WINGMASTER is right.... MORE GUNS= so much less crime no one here could even imagine it... Your point on a gun show should be a huge masacure is correct but its not. What morion is gonna go there to start a shooting no one cause he will be taken out so many times he will be hamburger. people with so "called" Mental problems are smart enought to not do a shooting there. should not even need a permit to carry concealed pistol.Everyone needs to carry.

MORE GUNS MORE GUN MORE GUNS MORE GUNS MORE GUNS=less crime

GHJames

A crazy person will find a way to do crazy things no matter what plans you put in place. Guns in the school to protect the kids, ban guns, whatever. The next idiot just has to be more creative than the last. My personal opinion on open carry is that you are just marking yourself to be the first victim. Common sense says cover it up and at least make bad guy have to guess who the one to fight back will be.

Wingmaster

Because the bad guys keep being bad, the good guys need to keep being good and prepared http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/man...

Lanivan

This man should be the 2nd Amendment poster child. A 70-year old coach, walking 2 students to their cars late at night, protects all 3 of them with his licensed pistol. As a reserve police officer, he's clearly experienced, responsible, and, from any accounts I can find, respectful of the existing gun safety laws. I think he's a hero on many levels - his caring for his team students by escorting them to their cars, his abilities to protect them, and the fact that, at age 70, it appears he's still involved with young people through coaching.

We should be grateful that our country has followed the spirit of the 2nd with laws that have allowed this particular scenario to play out - that, with a concealed firearm license, this man was legally equipped to protect himself and others when under attack with a legally purchased pistol, clearly with expertise and apparently within the boundaries of the law.

I realize many are cheering the thwarting of this attack. The police are saying that they can not find any other guns on the site. I look at the picture of the 16-year old who was killed, and wonder, why - why was this nice-looking young man so delinquent, attacking some peers and a 70 year old man that night instead of having fun with his friends,doing home work, working a part-time job, or practicing on another team.

I think about the typical hijinks my kids and their friends were doing at 16, and I just can't muster a cheer.

Wingmaster

Who abducted Lan? Lan is that you!! All kidding aside, I think you need to look a little deeper to understand why this 16 yr old was doing what he was doing. Parenting would be the first place to look. Break down of families in our culture is ignored at our all of our expense. Responsibility for actions is a foreign concept today. Kids are not being taught how to respect others. When we were kids we were taught to address elders with respect. I never dared to come home and have to explain why I lipped off to any adult. I suspect maybe I came of age a little later than you so the whole late 60's early 70's culture shift did not impact my teen years like it did many. Like that opinion or not, I feel many of todays ills can be linked back to then. As great as the music and technologies that came out of that time are, cultural change is not one of them. I'm sure those of you from the age of Aquarius will not like that assesment but I don't think its too far off.

Lanivan

Awesome - if indeed I am your elder, no more lip from Wing!

You do bring up a good point, and that is that violence and gun violence in our society is a complex problem that more laws alone can't cure. Good parenting is often the key between success or failure for children and the paths they take. Of course, I disagree with your placing blame on my generation, but think every generation leaves it's marks - both positive and negative - on society. It does seem that increasing violence and less discipline in the home and lack of respect is much greater now than when we were growing up.

Interesting you were surprised at my comments. I have never advocated for banning all guns. I am perfectly fine with pistol and rifle ownership, purchased through legal means to responsible citizens. So far, I haven't heard a single convincing argument for why non-military and law enforcement citizens need to buy assault weapons that can kill 26 people in 5 minutes with 152 bullets that render the bodies unrecognizable.

Wingmaster

Lol, I just spilled my 32oz. pop I'm having with lunch reading your reply. Not trying to giving you lip just enlightened conversation I hope that all of us learn from. Don't you think the so called "assault weapons" may be used for something other than killing people? You don't want me to go off on why Jeeps, Hummers and any other one time military vehicles are now on our streets killing innocent people do you?

Lanivan

I was not aware that assault weapons, besides being highly effective killing machines that kill multiple times within minutes, are also used for transport. Or that Jeeps and Hummers have another purpose other than transport - the ability to kill multiple times within minutes.

In many cases, my friends who happen to own Jeeps have spent more time and money on licenses, fees, and add-ons than the owners of assault weapons....bummer! They are gonna "go off" when they hear this!

Wingmaster

Because the bad guys keep being bad, the good guys need to keep being good and prepared http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/man...

Commissar

Okay, I have serious issues with this. The article itself shows how pathetic our education system, and our parenting as a whole, is. We have to ban firearms because kids are ‘hypersensitive’ to firearms… HUH?! My daughter is almost three (3) years old, and knows about guns because I own/carry them, my girlfriend owns/carries them, my ex-wife owned/carried them; she’s not afraid of an inanimate object. She’s three (3). She’s smarter than that. And she’s three (3). We need to be educating our children on the proper things TO fear, such as crazy people and those that are out to harm us and everyone, not saying that one piece of machinery is ‘bad’ and taking that away everything is going to be okay.

On another note, we (gun owners/carriers) TRIED to get it to be legal to carry concealed on such ‘restricted areas’ for the simple reason of removing that ‘hypersensitivity’ FROM the un-informed, yet still providing the personal security for oneself, one’s children and the public abroad. That was denied. But this was a planned blow back, because those that were now barred from carrying concealed, now are doing so in a form of protest, which is why this is now such an issue.

This entire Country seems to be going on an unbelievable blind and short sighted approach to dealing with a serious problem, because they are so tunnel vision focused on ‘the gun’, when that ISN’T the problem. It’s just a tool, it’s the person that uses it to commit violence that’s the problem; but we seem to think that if we make it illegal to ‘carry the gun’, then everyone will be safe. That is asinine. What everyone fails to see is that all you do is DISARM the law abiding citizenry, you do NOTHING to the criminal or crazy person that is actually going to do the harm; nothing.

When I started carrying, both openly and concealed, I did so to protect myself, my children, my family and the public at large because I was okay with the responsibility it carries to carry a firearm. I took my classes, paid my fees and monies, and am confident while carrying that I am doing my part to protect those important to me. Your choice to NOT defend yourself, or to be afraid of something you don’t understand, or dislike of firearms, should not remove MY RIGHT to defend myself, my family and anyone else because I took the responsibility and spent the money, got trained and certified, and don’t take it as a joke (as we are sometimes characterized).

You continue to press the ‘gun free zones’ in an act to make everyone safer, but this has never, NEVER, been proven to do so. The crazies still go in and kill people, anywhere, and the law abiding people are then victims, or worse yet dead, because you took THEIR RIGHT to defend themselves away… How right is that? I die, or my children die, because you said a ‘gun is a bad thing that you shouldn’t have one, and can’t have it here’. So it’s law and I go to the store, or go pick up my children from school, and die because someone who doesn’t care what you say, what law you enact, goes there any way and starts shooting everyone, knowing that nobody’s armed and they’ll meet no resistance. So I die, my children have to die, simply because I’m a good guy and obey the law? How the hell does that make ANY SENSE?! To anyone?

Nobody is saying we all need to carry, and nobody is saying we want this to look like the wild west. This is not an argument that we should all own military weapons, and tanks, and bazooka’s; people that fall to that argument show their ignorance, as nobody’s proposing anything of that sort. Those that don’t feel comfortable, or are opposed to it, shouldn’t carry; that is 100% okay. I’m okay with that, everyone’s okay with that, there shouldn’t be any mandate that you have to carry. But there also shouldn’t be any mandates saying you can’t. But the simple fact, the possibility, that others that are okay and comfortable with it, and that somebody MAY be carrying, will and does reduce violence. Remember, these mass shootings have occurred in gun free zones, this is not conjecture, this is FACT; there was a reason.

Do not damn my life, or my children’s lives, my loved ones lives, or even YOUR life, simply because you’re uncomfortable and don’t understand the facts. The fear of an inanimate object is unreasonable, and in this instance, it IS a fear that may get you killed.

Wingmaster

Spot on and laser sharp on point Commissar.

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