Gun control support

To the Editor: When 90 percent of the American people are in favor of gun control and Congress fails to act accordingly, we, the people, have to act.
Apr 8, 2013

Congress is broken. In a democracy, it's up to us to fix it.

The answer to gun violence in schools is not to put more guns in schools, as the NRA and Congressman Bill Huizenga suggest. "In homes with guns, the homicide of a household member is almost three times more likely to occur than in homes without guns" (www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp#ownership). The same is likely to be true of guns in schools.

Bill Huizenga is opposed to all gun control. We don't need more killings like the children at Sandy Hook. We have more than 30,000 gun deaths and 70,000 gun injuries each year in the U.S. Are we at war with ourselves? That's more deaths than in Iraq and Afghanistan together!

We need to vote Bill Huizenga out of office to do our share to fix Congress and make it responsive to the will of the people.

— Tom Donahue, Grand Haven

Comments

Lanivan

I'm afraid I've spoiled you, laughing off all your lib/dem/lefty/left digs, when I've been a registered Republican, and am now an Independent. You will find lobbing these labels on other moderate Repubs will not always get you points....

Wingmaster

You know its really sad how you view this. There is left and right....and only fools in between. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Exactly what was bitched about by this gentleman is exactly what game he's playing. Priceless lesson for all to read!

Whatareyoutalki...

I believe you to be tired. (This is an assumption, my apologies if inaccurate) Might I recommend that you take leave of this board for the evening and return when you've had time to rest, gather your thoughts, and think about the content & context of your posts.

Lanivan

It's not sad...it's honest. There are many, many variations of political opinions out there. There are extreme fringes on both sides and everything in between. I know it's easier, and maybe even somewhat comforting, to label and put parameters around people, but this isn't how things work in real time. That's why the gun issue is so emotional, so divisive, so contradictory.

I know people who are registered Tea Party Repubs, who have owned guns their whole lives, who are members of the NRA, and tell me they want tighter background checks and gun registry, and oppose open carry guns in schools. Then there are the truly liberal friends who carry daily, who also want law enforcement have the teeth to be able to clamp down on inner city gun violence. What makes me sad is that gun violence should be considered a matter of public safety, with citizen advocacy, not a political football.

Just think about it....you're bigger than this.

Wingmaster

Your right, there are variations of political opinions. But guess what, we have two parties that basically control the system today. I want clear bold differences not Democrat light or Republican light. I also want these wolves to shed their sheep's clothing and run from where they will govern. Had I heard he voted for Gary Johnson of the Libertarian party, or say Tom Hoelfling of the American Independent party I maybe having further dialogue and entertain his "moderate" positioning.

Don't worry about honesty, you'll get that here. Don't go whining, spinning, bobbing and weaving when I give it to you.

You know its funny when someone gets on here and wants to act so above the fray and talk like a moderate and as soon as they are pressed on clear positions they will spout off talking points that they so rile against. Priceless hypocrisy!

You Lan are at least entertaining with a touch of humor so I'll continue butting heads with you even though you are not honest with yourself and the positions you hold.

With that have a good night and it looks like Michigan's got a fight on their hands. Go Blue!

Lanivan

What you may want is not what you may get. You are a guy who likes bold differences, sharp parameters, you're a Teddy Roosevelt-type of guy. You call it as you see it. But not everybody is like you, of course, and there are so many nuances with every issue.

You could not be more wrong when you accuse me of not being honest with myself. That might have been true back in the day, but not now. Sorry - my beliefs and positions are deeply held, so much so I have to say they are what keep me in this forum, and give me the energy and direction to move forward on so many levels.

Hope you don't get any bed bug bites.....

Whatareyoutalki...

You said I was something! You labeled me as something! You labeled the person!
I said something you said was something! I labeled a phrase as something. I labeled an action!

See the difference?

I at no time labeled you anything, just something you said.

Voting for something does not define you politically or personally. It's a choice, and most of my choices tend to turn to a traditional republican definition. The current republican definition is not the norm, and if it continues on it's current path of redefinition and a shift in core values I will re-evaluate what party best represents the majority of my choices.

Your defensive reactions to a simple back and forth exchange of words is yet another example of the issues we have in this country. I would ask you to read the exchange and think about how you believe it devolved. Look past our differences, and your potential disagreements with opinions I have made.

I'll think you'll find that your most recent post was in haste.

I leave you with one final thought. GO MICHIGAN!

(And for full disclosure, I happen to be a Michigan State fan, but nothing would make me happier than to have a national championship back in Michigan regardless of the team that brings it home)

Wingmaster

Your words:

"I am a registered republican. I do enjoy hunting and fishing.
I believe in a moderate federal government, and a stronger local and state government.
I think gay marriage is fine. I firmly believe in the separation of church and state.
(And this is off topic, but the constitution clearly calls for a separation of church and state, your religion should have no effect on the laws of my country, ever!)

I believe the current gun laws are a joke, and the ability or inability of our government to enforce them is even more so. I believe the whole system should be overhauled. I believe licensing and training enforcement should be the basis for a solid gun control system. (without this it’s all for not)"

And this...."You get news channels that lean to the left and the right overreacts with Fox News"..... Followed by...."I like John Stuart and hate Bill Maher. I used to like Bill O'Reilly but he's been sucked into the machine and just spits out party line crap"....and then "I voted for Obama for crying out loud. I had no choice, Romney was another wasted shot by the republicans that pushed so far to one side they were unapproachable"....."Then my favorite after I flushed you out..."I did not vote for Obama because of his ideals, I voted for him because they were at least his".

Pretty much confirms the reasons I called you a closet Democrat. Sorry I assumed so much to get there but you sure did sprinkle a lot of Dem positions during this little exchange. If the shoe fits..... I also didn't realize that calling someone a Democrat, albeit, a closet one was arrogant. Guess I did learn something there.

Whatareyoutalki...

Right, I voted for Obama, so that makes me a democrat.

When given the option of Romney vs Obama I simply looked at the facts and the message that was being given by both.

The facts are: (using politifact.com as a source for numbers)
Romney + Ryan lied 43% of the time (mostly false - pants on fire)
Obama + Biden lied 28% of the time (mostly false - pants on fire)

I do not have to agree with every single view they have.
But I'll be damned if I'm going to vote for someone who's got almost a 50% chance of looking me in the eye and lying to me.

But I digress, my original post was to address gun control in this country and I believe the ideas presented are sound and could be adopted by both "left" and "right" as a solid means to help maintain our gun rights while helping to reduce gun related deaths in this country.

retired DOC

If Obuma/Holder would do their jobs by locking up the repeat felons with guns as federal calls for then the crime rate shootings would go down. But that would only happen if there were new federal prisons built. Something close to 90% of those that Obuma/Holder claimed were stopped from buying guns were later proven to be a mistake on the part of the background check. Much like Ted Kennedy being on the no-fly list. Still those that Obuma/Holder charged were such a small number that it was less than 1% that Obuma/Holder claimed were failed the background checks.

rainbowjoe

None of us wants to see another Sandy Hook or Aurora massacre, but we differ on how to accomplish that goal. Perhaps we'll never be totally safe. What all of us seem to be overlooking, though, is that the zealous and misdirected left-led pursuit to outlaw and/or restrict "assault" weapons and high-capacity magazines is way off target (pun intended). Statistically, "assault" weapons and high-cap magazines are pretty much insignificant when factored into total gun crimes. The vast majority of gun crimes are committed using handguns by and against gangbangers, criminals and others involved in the underside of our society. That is where federal and legislative efforts should be directed. With that being said, I also think our state and federal governments can begin an aggressive and massive campaign to instill in us gun owners that many of us need to do a better job of storing and securing our firearms. Many accidents in the home occur because of improperly secured firearms, and many crimes are committed using stolen firearms that, obviously, were not adequately secured. Public education has worked to reduce teenage pregnancies and drunk driving, and I think public education would work to convince some of the bonehead gun owners among us to properly secure our firearms. If Mrs. Lanza had simply secured her weapons properly, maybe Sandy Hook wouldn't have occurred. I would rather this approach be tried first rather than have any government meddling into the 2nd amendment. Go after the criminals, and educate those who apparently need it.

Lanivan

Your comment regarding "zealous and misdirected left-led..." prompts me to say that gun laws traditionally have been passed in both Federal and State Republican and Democrat legislatures. I realize you probably are focusing on current pursuits, but it's not accurate to make the concern about gun violence in our country right now to be labeled left or right.

rainbowjoe

You're right, Lanivan. It isn't left or right. All decent people want to see improvement in our society, and reduced gun violence, so let's keep the conversation going.

Wingmaster

Well put rainbowjoe. Careful now, watch for the left hook when you let your guard down. Don't forget we need a massive campaign to enforce existing laws related to gun offenses. Over focus on the gun owners who had their weapons stolen and somehow being responsible for a crime is like saying a women wearing a skirt is somehow responsible for a rape.

Education will help but it cost money. Everybody has to pony up if this is an everybody problem. Attaching fees to gun ownership (to pay for education) is another slippery slope. However well intentioned you are some wolf will see an opportunity to make it cost prohibitive to own a gun.

Incidentally, by your name I assume your eagerly anticipating the last Saturday of April...good luck.

rainbowjoe

A campaign of public education would be mere crumbs out of the total pie. No additional fees-we pay enough in excise taxes, and you can't go after the legal gun owner whose weapon is stolen by a criminal. This national debate about guns is the perfect time to start. Ride this topic by saturating the airwaves and educating people to properly store and secure their firearms. We gun owners do have that responsibility along with our right. One thing government does do well is dispense public health information, so this would be right up its alley, and there are already enough politicians bloviating on the topic. A simultaneous, widespread assault on illegal gun users and criminals would be welcome as well, and far more effective than angering and alienating the vast majority of decent gun owners with ineffective new laws.

You're right, I was put on this earth to fish. Fortunately, the new regs allow me to pretty much pursue trout year round. My teenagers think the "rainbow" in my name tells others that I'm gay. Good luck to you, too.

rainbowjoe

A campaign of public education would be mere crumbs out of the total pie. No additional fees-we pay enough in excise taxes, and you can't go after the legal gun owner whose weapon is stolen by a criminal. This national debate about guns is the perfect time to start. Ride this topic by saturating the airwaves and educating people to properly store and secure their firearms. We gun owners do have that responsibility along with our right. One thing government does do well is dispense public health information, so this would be right up its alley, and there are already enough politicians bloviating on the topic. A simultaneous, widespread assault on illegal gun users and criminals would be welcome as well, and far more effective than angering and alienating the vast majority of decent gun owners with ineffective new laws.

You're right, I was put on this earth to fish. Fortunately, the new regs allow me to pretty much pursue trout year round. My teenagers think the "rainbow" in my name tells others that I'm gay. Good luck to you, too.

AtomicRooster

A student today went on a stabbing rampage today at a Community College down in Texas. So I think we should ban all knives, silverware, scissors, rocks, stones, wood boards, should be banned as well. Or anything that could be used a personal assault weapon. Let's get real here, can we folks? A few nut cases throughout the nation and we automatically assume everyone is a criminal and want to limit what guns you can own and what guns you cannot. To me that is a direct violation of our 2nd Amendment right. Myself personally, I have no use nor do I have any desire to ever own a high powered/high quantity magazine assault weapon. But I believe every household/homeowner should at least own one decent 12 gauge shotgun for home defense against any home invasions. Anytime you think that 911 is going to save the day you're sadly mistaken. Ask anyone who has been a victim of a home invasion. Ask them if 911 was able to save the day. You are living in a dream world if you think they can. 911 is only there for the aftermath and cleanup.

Vladtheimp

Should there ever be a breakdown like Katrina, you might need a "Katrina Rifle" like one of them assault weapons, but even those were confiscated by the police in New Orleans - at least you'd have a fighting chance.http://reason.com/archives/2005/...

tequila news

When 90 percent of the American people are in favor of gun control and Congress fails to act accordingly, we, the people, have to act.

WITH GUNS BABY WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Wingmaster

READ IT AGAIN...IT SAYS FAVORS BACKGROUND CHECKS NOT GUN CONTROL.

Back to the Wall

Background checks ARE gun control.

When all purchases are screened and approved, no legal transactions will occur without tacit governmental approval. All gun ownership will be subject to government approval, and within one generation, all guns will be registeted.

Regulated commerce is control. We've been controlling the commerce of revolvers and pistols for forty five years, since the GUN CONTROL act of 1968. We know it doesn't work.

Don't be foiled

Wingmaster

True. Background checks are just the slow burn to gun control. I just have to clear up the misquoted information as you know how I feel about accurate information and its interpretation.

tequila news

I did not misquote anything, that there was copy-paste unless you mean to say I quoted perfectly a misquote in which case I will forgive your slanderous remarks. At any rate, I STILL say we ACT......WITH GUNS WOOOOOOOOOOOOO YEA BABAY GUNS!!!!!!!

Wingmaster

Slanderous remarks? Huh?

Back to the Wall

"Fooled"
Don't be fooled, although foiled works at many levels...

Ironcop

One more time. Gun control and various forms of registration will not have or make a significant on gun crime. The bad guys don't obey the laws, they scoff at them. They'll get their guns no matter what. We might, however, reduce the numbers of mentally ill-related gun crimes if our state governments healthcare facilities will report mental health problems to federal agencies involved in background checks. Let's enforce the laws we have rather than put restrictions on law-obeying citizens.

Ironcop

One more time. Gun control and various forms of registration will not have or make a significant impact on gun crime. The bad guys don't obey the laws, they scoff at them. They'll get their guns no matter what. We might, however, reduce the numbers of mentally ill-related gun crimes if our state governments and all healthcare facilities will report mental health problems to federal agencies involved in background checks. Let's enforce the laws we have rather than put restrictions on law-obeying citizens. (Earlier input corrected.)

tequila news

DOUBLE POSTED "ONE MORE TIME" MORE LIKE IRONYCOP AM I RIGHT

AND YOU WANT A FEDERAL CENSUS OF MENTAL HEALTH PATIENTS? NOT ONLY DO YOU SCOFF AT HIPAA BUT YOU ASSUME THE RISK IS IN DOCUMENTED RECIPIENTS OF HEALTH CARE WHO WOULD HOPEFULLY HAVE HAD SOME/ARE IN THE PROCESS OF FINDING SOME SUCCESSFUL TREATMENT WHILE A NON-FELONIOUS DEGENERATE COUNTRY FELLOW WHO BATHES AS OFTEN AS HE FINISHES READING A NOVEL GLOATS IN HIS OWN IGNORANCE LOADING 30 ROUND MAGAZINES, SCRATCHING HIS MORBIDLY OBESE GUT, AND SIPPING BUSH LIGHT IN A CAMMO CAN

OSTRACIZING FURTHER AND VIOLATING THE RIGHTS OF AN ALREADY EXILED COMMUNITY IS A VIABLE SOLUTION TO GUN VIOLENCE BUT WE SHOULD ACCEPT THAT CRIMINALS GONNA CRIME AND NOT EVEN WORRY SINCE THEY PROBABLY ARE KILLING PEOPLE IN, YOU KNOW, THE ETHNIC NEIGHBORHOODS.

YEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHH CAPSLOCK I SAID IT LOUD TOO GIT SOME

Wingmaster

Burp!

tequila news

As insightful as I have ever seen. Great job! I'm just going to start a new thread since page four has been reached and I'm not going to rely on "the regulars" backtracking. I'd like as many people telling me I'm wrong for no good reason as possible.

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